Barry Bonds...Asshole beyond words...

[HB810]

To any of you out there who still don't believe that Barry Bonds is a Major
League Asshole, check this out.

Some time ago, you may remember a small story in the news that Bonds had
severed his licensing and merchandising agreement with the MLB and players
association. When I first heard it, I thought, "Typical Barry Bonds, the
asshole that he is," and dismissed it.

A little while ago, I bought my 10-year old the latest version of MLB 2005
for his Playstation 2. After a few days of playing it, he reported to me
that on the game, Barry Bonds was missing from the SF roster and he was
having trouble finding him on any other team (he thought the computer had
mistakenly traded him to another team.)

Now, I've always known that Bonds was a monumental cocksucker and an asshole
beyond words. But this is truly a new low. Every other superstar of
baseball you could think of, including Ruth, Cobb (another asshole), and
Gehrig (who are DEAD!), is on that game. But I guess the 989 video game
company couldn't name Bonds price.

On the bright side, my son received yet another lesson in baseball. The
more talented a player you are, the bigger the asshole you can be to your
fans.

On the side, I'm glad Petco Park could contain him, preventing him from
hitting 660. He was pressing desperately. It was fun to watch. I could
understand why though. He had to hit 660 quickly before the league suspends
his for long term steroid use.

BARRY BONDS IS A FUCKING ASSHOLE!!!!!

[Randall Turner]

This criticism is misguided. Many superstar athletes aren't participants in
their respective collective bargaining agreement organizations. Barry didn't
specifically target your son, he (like Aikman, Deion, etc) made a business
decision that he didn't want to sign away his own marketing rights. That's his
decision to make. Game companies don't have the bandwidth to chase down every
independent player, so if their rights aren't owned by their union, their name
doesn't get included in the game.

There should be a facility to type Barry's name in yourself, btw.

Post by HB810
To any of you out there who still don't believe that Barry Bonds is a Major
League Asshole, check this out.
Some time ago, you may remember a small story in the news that Bonds had
severed his licensing and merchandising agreement with the MLB and players
association. When I first heard it, I thought, "Typical Barry Bonds, the
asshole that he is," and dismissed it.
A little while ago, I bought my 10-year old the latest version of MLB 2005
for his Playstation 2. After a few days of playing it, he reported to me
that on the game, Barry Bonds was missing from the SF roster and he was
having trouble finding him on any other team (he thought the computer had
mistakenly traded him to another team.)
Now, I've always known that Bonds was a monumental cocksucker and an asshole
beyond words. But this is truly a new low. Every other superstar of
baseball you could think of, including Ruth, Cobb (another asshole), and
Gehrig (who are DEAD!), is on that game. But I guess the 989 video game
company couldn't name Bonds price.
On the bright side, my son received yet another lesson in baseball. The
more talented a player you are, the bigger the asshole you can be to your
fans.
On the side, I'm glad Petco Park could contain him, preventing him from
hitting 660. He was pressing desperately. It was fun to watch. I could
understand why though. He had to hit 660 quickly before the league suspends
his for long term steroid use.
BARRY BONDS IS A FUCKING ASSHOLE!!!!!

[badlands420]

Post by Randall Turner
This criticism is misguided. Many superstar athletes aren't participants in
their respective collective bargaining agreement organizations. Barry didn't
specifically target your son, he (like Aikman, Deion, etc) made a business
decision that he didn't want to sign away his own marketing rights.

Yup. Just because he's an asshole and a bad guy doesn't mean he shouldn't
have the same rights as everybody else. Would any of us want to be told what
we could and couldn't do with our own name and likeness?

[FunKiNjEfF]

Post by badlands420
Would any of us want to be told what
we could and couldn't do with our own name and likeness?

If I could have a MLB player's salary, I don't think I'd mind.

I'm not mad that Barry* did what he did, it's his right, but the guy's correct
that he's an asshole. I don't even think there are Barry Bonds* baseball cards
now, right?

I'm sorta getting nervous typing his name, he's likely to come sue my ass for
using it without his permission.

[Randall Turner]

Post by Randall Turner

Post by Randall Turner
This criticism is misguided. Many superstar athletes aren't participants

in

Post by Randall Turner
their respective collective bargaining agreement organizations. Barry

didn't

Post by Randall Turner
specifically target your son, he (like Aikman, Deion, etc) made a business
decision that he didn't want to sign away his own marketing rights.

Yup. Just because he's an asshole and a bad guy doesn't mean he shouldn't
have the same rights as everybody else. Would any of us want to be told what
we could and couldn't do with our own name and likeness?

The players themselves don't necessarily want their names withheld, by the way.
That's just how it works when they reserve their own marketing rights. HB810,
check if A-rod or (who?) I don't know, a representative sample of big name
veterans (they have to be older) also have their names reserved.

You really don't like him for himself, Badlands? I don't have an opinion. He's
just a good athlete. Sure tired of him wearing us out every year, though.

[badlands420]

Post by Randall Turner
You really don't like him for himself, Badlands? I don't have an opinion. He's
just a good athlete.

I have totally separate opinions of the guy as a person and as a ballplayer.
His accomplishments (whether chemically enhanced or not) are incomparable,
and he's without a doubt the best baseball player I've seen in my lifetime.
But I still consider him a surly, self-obsessed sack of shit. But as a
former writer, I'm probably hopelessly biased in that regard.

[XYZ]

Post by badlands420

Post by Randall Turner
You really don't like him for himself, Badlands? I don't have an

opinion.

Post by badlands420
He's

Post by Randall Turner
just a good athlete.

I have totally separate opinions of the guy as a person and as a ballplayer.
His accomplishments (whether chemically enhanced or not) are incomparable,
and he's without a doubt the best baseball player I've seen in my lifetime.
But I still consider him a surly, self-obsessed sack of shit. But as a
former writer, I'm probably hopelessly biased in that regard.

Yes, because I'm sure he has *personally* treated you and your
friends/family like shit. I'm sure as a former writer, he turned down
numerous interview attempts by you.

Try forming your own opinions, and not just what the media crams down your
throat...

[badlands420]

Post by XYZ
Yes, because I'm sure he has *personally* treated you and your
friends/family like shit. I'm sure as a former writer, he turned down
numerous interview attempts by you.

If you'd like to address something I actually said, please go ahead. Or just
keep whining like a bitch so I can laugh at you more. Either way works for
me.

Post by XYZ
Try forming your own opinions, and not just what the media crams down your
throat...

LMAO.....so only those who agree with you are independent thinkers, while
those with divergent points of view are mere parrots for the media. Thanks
skippy, I'll make a note of it.

[XYZ]

Post by badlands420

Post by XYZ
Yes, because I'm sure he has *personally* treated you and your
friends/family like shit. I'm sure as a former writer, he turned down
numerous interview attempts by you.

If you'd like to address something I actually said, please go ahead. Or just
keep whining like a bitch so I can laugh at you more. Either way works for
me.
1) His accomplishments (whether chemically enhanced or not) are

incomparable,

Post by badlands420
and he's without a doubt the best baseball player I've seen in my lifetime.

No comment, I agree...

Post by badlands420
and 2) But I still consider him a surly, self-obsessed sack of shit. But

as a

Post by badlands420
former writer, I'm probably hopelessly biased in that regard.

Proove it, or are you going to spout more media crap? The media crap, I'm
sure.

Post by badlands420

Post by XYZ
Try forming your own opinions, and not just what the media crams down your
throat...

LMAO.....so only those who agree with you are independent thinkers, while
those with divergent points of view are mere parrots for the media. Thanks
skippy, I'll make a note of it.

Unless you personally make note of how Bonds has shafted either you or your
family/friends in the past, consider yourself a media cock-sucking buffoon.
End of story. Good try, though. I'm waiting for a retort, one that I will
never get, as you have never met Bonds. LMFAO...

[badlands420]

Post by XYZ
No comment, I agree...

Gosh, thanks. Your approval is extremely important to me.

Post by XYZ
Proove it, or are you going to spout more media crap? The media crap, I'm
sure.

Scroo yoo, looser.

Post by XYZ
Unless you personally make note of how Bonds has shafted either you or your
family/friends in the past, consider yourself a media cock-sucking buffoon.

Unless you personally make note of who in the fuck appointed the supreme
arbiter of the appropriate criteria whereby other people may or may not form
opinions, consider yourself an arrogant, whining little fuckstain. Just like
your hero.

Post by XYZ
End of story. Good try, though. I'm waiting for a retort, one that I will
never get, as you have never met Bonds. LMFAO...

If you're waiting for a retort, you might want to start by writing something
cogent enough to warrant one.

[XYZ]

Post by badlands420
Unless you personally make note of who in the fuck appointed the supreme
arbiter of the appropriate criteria whereby other people may or may not form
opinions, consider yourself an arrogant, whining little fuckstain. Just like
your hero.

He's not my hero; I never said he was. But like you, I've never met him
personally, and so I have no personal opinion of the man. I've "heard" he's
a prick to the media. I've also "heard" he's a great husband, father and
son. I "know" he is one hell of an athlete, though.

Post by badlands420

Post by XYZ
End of story. Good try, though. I'm waiting for a retort, one that I will
never get, as you have never met Bonds. LMFAO...

If you're waiting for a retort, you might want to start by writing something
cogent enough to warrant one.

You can have ANY opinion you want; I never said you couldn't. But at least
back it up. Generalizing Barry Bonds as a "surly, self-obsessed sack of
shit" without even meeting the guy is as useless, unfounded and arbitrary as
me saying that I hate Niagara Falls because of the pictures I've seen, even
though I've never actually been, or hating a band without hearing any of
their music.

[FunKiNjEfF]

Post by XYZ
You can have ANY opinion you want; I never said you couldn't. But at least
back it up. Generalizing Barry Bonds as a "surly, self-obsessed sack of
shit" without even meeting the guy is as useless, unfounded and arbitrary as
me saying that I hate Niagara Falls because of the pictures I've seen, even
though I've never actually been, or hating a band without hearing any of
their music.

Or saying Michael Jackson is a child molester without him ever putting his
finger in your 8 year old boy's bunghole. Or saying OJ is a wife killer
without him ever cutting your loved one's throat. Or that Courtney Love is a
crazy druggie without ever having slammed herion with her.

Should I continue? BTW, I hate O Town's music, and I've never heard one of
their songs.

[Michael Bushong]

FunKiNjEfF <***@aol.com> wrote:
:>You can have ANY opinion you want; I never said you couldn't. But at least
:>back it up. Generalizing Barry Bonds as a "surly, self-obsessed sack of
:>shit" without even meeting the guy is as useless, unfounded and arbitrary as
:>me saying that I hate Niagara Falls because of the pictures I've seen, even
:>though I've never actually been, or hating a band without hearing any of
:>their music.


: Or saying Michael Jackson is a child molester without him ever putting his
: finger in your 8 year old boy's bunghole. Or saying OJ is a wife killer
: without him ever cutting your loved one's throat. Or that Courtney Love is a
: crazy druggie without ever having slammed herion with her.

: Should I continue? BTW, I hate O Town's music, and I've never heard one of
: their songs.

Well, you had me until you slammed O Town. Why you gotta be a hater? O
Town's music is hella whack, yo. You jus' aren't down.

Forever helpful,

-Mike

[badlands420]

Post by FunKiNjEfF
Or saying Michael Jackson is a child molester without him ever putting his
finger in your 8 year old boy's bunghole. Or saying OJ is a wife killer
without him ever cutting your loved one's throat. Or that Courtney Love is a
crazy druggie without ever having slammed herion with her.

What he said. If you're gonna hang your hat on an all-encompassing form of
logic, you better be ready to extrapolate it accordingly.

PS- I met and interviewed Bonds as a Pirate in '92, and he was perfectly
cordial to me even though I was a young nobody of a writer. But my one
personal experience does not negate the hundreds of occasions when he's
treated people like dogshit for trying to do their jobs.

[viper]

Post by badlands420

Post by FunKiNjEfF
Or saying Michael Jackson is a child molester without him ever putting his
finger in your 8 year old boy's bunghole. Or saying OJ is a wife killer
without him ever cutting your loved one's throat. Or that Courtney Love

is a

Post by FunKiNjEfF
crazy druggie without ever having slammed herion with her.

What he said. If you're gonna hang your hat on an all-encompassing form of
logic, you better be ready to extrapolate it accordingly.
PS- I met and interviewed Bonds as a Pirate in '92, and he was perfectly
cordial to me even though I was a young nobody of a writer. But my one
personal experience does not negate the hundreds of occasions when he's
treated people like dogshit for trying to do their jobs.

So even though he was nice to you, you still think he's a prick
because others have said he was, I guess that's not mirroring the
views of others.

[XYZ]

Post by viper

Post by badlands420

Post by FunKiNjEfF
Or saying Michael Jackson is a child molester without him ever putting his
finger in your 8 year old boy's bunghole. Or saying OJ is a wife killer
without him ever cutting your loved one's throat. Or that Courtney Love

is a

Post by FunKiNjEfF
crazy druggie without ever having slammed herion with her.

What he said. If you're gonna hang your hat on an all-encompassing form of
logic, you better be ready to extrapolate it accordingly.
PS- I met and interviewed Bonds as a Pirate in '92, and he was perfectly
cordial to me even though I was a young nobody of a writer. But my one
personal experience does not negate the hundreds of occasions when he's
treated people like dogshit for trying to do their jobs.

So even though he was nice to you, you still think he's a prick
because others have said he was, I guess that's not mirroring the
views of others.

I had the same question, but very little of what he has said thus far makes
sense to me. I figured his answer to this question wouldn't make any more
sense...

[badlands420]

Post by viper
So even though he was nice to you, you still think he's a prick
because others have said he was, I guess that's not mirroring the
views of others.

Question for both you and XYZ: Am I to assume that neither of you has ever
formed an opinion of something without direct firsthand involvement therein?
If you answer no, you're a hypocrite. If you answer yes, you have a serious
aversion to thought

*cue Jeopardy theme song*

[viper]

On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:01:56 -0700, "badlands420"

Post by badlands420

Post by viper
So even though he was nice to you, you still think he's a prick
because others have said he was, I guess that's not mirroring the
views of others.

Question for both you and XYZ: Am I to assume that neither of you has ever
formed an opinion of something without direct firsthand involvement therein?
If you answer no, you're a hypocrite. If you answer yes, you have a serious
aversion to thought
*cue Jeopardy theme song*

Everyone has an opinion on most stuff, it's just when some one has an
opinion that is being fed by the media and can't back up their opinion
with anything, it looks dumb.

My opinion of Barry is he is reletively shy and is afraid of saying
the wrong thing or have it Misconstrued. This causing him to seem
distant.

[badlands420]

Post by viper
Everyone has an opinion on most stuff, it's just when some one has an
opinion that is being fed by the media and can't back up their opinion
with anything, it looks dumb.

Answer the damn question, dude.

[viper]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:11:06 -0700, "badlands420"

Post by badlands420

Post by viper
Everyone has an opinion on most stuff, it's just when some one has an
opinion that is being fed by the media and can't back up their opinion
with anything, it looks dumb.

Answer the damn question, dude.

Yes I have opinions on stuff I don't have first hand knowledge of, but
If some one says something about some one that I have fist hand
knowledge of I would beleive my own experience over what they say.

Post by badlands420

Post by viper
"PS- I met and interviewed Bonds as a Pirate in '92, and he was perfectly
cordial to me even though I was a young nobody of a writer."

So you met Bonds, and he was cordial to you.

Post by badlands420

Post by viper
But my one personal experience does not negate the hundreds of occasions when he's
treated people like dogshit for trying to do their jobs.

But you can't trust your own experience you have to form an opinion of
others based on what others say.

[badlands420]

Post by viper
But you can't trust your own experience you have to form an opinion of
others based on what others say.

If you choose to view things in such a simplistic, childlike fashion, that's
your problem. I (and most reasonable people) endeavor to form objective
opinions based on all available information. I am neither arrogant nor
self-absorbed enough to think my personal experience should be the sole
determining factor in any viewpoint at which I arrive. If you somehow
perceive this as an indictment of my ability to think independently, then I
welcome your continued criticism. In fact, I consider it a compliment.

[Seapig]

Post by viper
On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 23:01:56 -0700, "badlands420"

Post by badlands420

Post by viper
So even though he was nice to you, you still think he's a prick
because others have said he was, I guess that's not mirroring the
views of others.

Question for both you and XYZ: Am I to assume that neither of you has ever
formed an opinion of something without direct firsthand involvement therein?
If you answer no, you're a hypocrite. If you answer yes, you have a serious
aversion to thought
*cue Jeopardy theme song*

Everyone has an opinion on most stuff, it's just when some one has an
opinion that is being fed by the media and can't back up their opinion
with anything, it looks dumb.
My opinion of Barry is he is reletively shy and is afraid of saying
the wrong thing or have it Misconstrued. This causing him to seem
distant.

When someone has an opinion that isn't being fed by the media and
can't back up their opinion with anything, it looks dumber.

[Trace Wood]

Post by viper
My opinion of Barry is he is reletively shy and is afraid of saying
the wrong thing or have it Misconstrued.

That's rich! On national TV he says, "the only number I care about is
Babe Ruth's. Because as a left-handed hitter, I wiped him out. That's
it. And in the baseball world, Babe Ruth's everything, right? I got
his slugging percentage and I'll take his home runs and that's it.
Don't talk about him no more."

Please.

[Seapig]

Post by Trace Wood

Post by viper
My opinion of Barry is he is reletively shy and is afraid of saying
the wrong thing or have it Misconstrued.

That's rich! On national TV he says, "the only number I care about is
Babe Ruth's. Because as a left-handed hitter, I wiped him out. That's
it. And in the baseball world, Babe Ruth's everything, right? I got
his slugging percentage and I'll take his home runs and that's it.
Don't talk about him no more."
Please.

Hold on a second, I never wrote that. I've been misquoted! Hey,
maybe that's what happens to Bonds. Maybe Barry really IS a
sweetheart. I'm going to have to rethink this whole thing.

[FunKiNjEfF]

Post by viper
My opinion of Barry is he is reletively shy

LOLOLOL!!!

Sorry, that's just golden. Mr shy little Barry Bonds who never sits there
staring at his homeruns from the plate, and sheepishly goes around the bases.

Mr. "I don't want to say the wrong thing" who gets into a fist fight with his
teammate in the dugout.

Yeah, and Jeffrey Dahmer was just a regular dude who got stoned and hungry one
night...

[viper]

Post by FunKiNjEfF

Post by viper
My opinion of Barry is he is reletively shy

LOLOLOL!!!
Sorry, that's just golden. Mr shy little Barry Bonds who never sits there
staring at his homeruns from the plate, and sheepishly goes around the bases.

When I ment shy I was reffering to his relations with the media and
people he hasn't got to know, not the game. He also doesn't do
anything Sosa with his skip jump and kiss or Griffey watching or
Sheffield standing at the plate watching doesn't do when hitting a
HR. Or a pitcher Celebrating after getting him out.

Post by FunKiNjEfF
Mr. "I don't want to say the wrong thing" who gets into a fist fight with his
teammate in the dugout.

Jeff Kent went off on another teamate David Bell, and Barry Came to
his defense and kent started shoving. The media blew it way out of
proportion, just cause it involved Bonds.

Post by FunKiNjEfF
Yeah, and Jeffrey Dahmer was just a regular dude who got stoned and hungry one
night...

[XYZ]

Post by viper

Post by FunKiNjEfF
Mr. "I don't want to say the wrong thing" who gets into a fist fight with his
teammate in the dugout.

Jeff Kent went off on another teamate David Bell, and Barry Came to
his defense and kent started shoving. The media blew it way out of
proportion, just cause it involved Bonds.

I wouldn't have figured anyone in this group would have known this, though.
They were just interested in the fight itself, because it included Bonds,
and not what started it in the first place or its aftermath.

[Randall Turner]

Post by XYZ

Post by viper

Post by FunKiNjEfF
Mr. "I don't want to say the wrong thing" who gets into a fist fight with

his

Post by viper

Post by FunKiNjEfF
teammate in the dugout.

Jeff Kent went off on another teamate David Bell, and Barry Came to
his defense and kent started shoving. The media blew it way out of
proportion, just cause it involved Bonds.

I wouldn't have figured anyone in this group would have known this, though.
They were just interested in the fight itself, because it included Bonds,
and not what started it in the first place or its aftermath.

Hey, maybe that's a factor. I live in the Bay Area for work, and maybe I get a
different picture than SD proper residents. I could see how I might get into a
scrap w/Jeff Kent myself, for instance, but most SD fans might not.

Nyeh. whatever.

[XYZ]

Post by Randall Turner

Post by XYZ

Post by viper

Post by FunKiNjEfF
Mr. "I don't want to say the wrong thing" who gets into a fist fight with

his

Post by viper

Post by FunKiNjEfF
teammate in the dugout.

Jeff Kent went off on another teamate David Bell, and Barry Came to
his defense and kent started shoving. The media blew it way out of
proportion, just cause it involved Bonds.

I wouldn't have figured anyone in this group would have known this, though.
They were just interested in the fight itself, because it included Bonds,
and not what started it in the first place or its aftermath.

Hey, maybe that's a factor. I live in the Bay Area for work, and maybe I get a
different picture than SD proper residents. I could see how I might get into a
scrap w/Jeff Kent myself, for instance, but most SD fans might not.
Nyeh. whatever.

I live in SD, and I remember all that night and the next morning, all I saw
were shots of Bonds with his grip around Kent's neck. It wasn't until later,
after a fair amount of investigation, that I found out what really happened,
and why. There definitely was a anti-Bonds, San Diego twist on the incident,
but it was probably more of a nation-wide, not in SF anti-Bonds twist in
reality.

[viper]

I live in SF Bay Area, and on ESPN it was all about Bonds, but local
news really investigated what happened, National Media didn't want to
bother to get the story right.

Also there wasn't much to it other then a bit of releasing tension
cause when Kent went on the Free Agent market Bonds told management he
wanted Kent resigned, but Kent chose to leave to inflate his stats in
a park nick named "Ten Run". Joke's on Kent, he didn't even hit 100
RBI's which was the first time since before he joined the Giants.

Post by XYZ
I live in SD, and I remember all that night and the next morning, all I saw
were shots of Bonds with his grip around Kent's neck. It wasn't until later,
after a fair amount of investigation, that I found out what really happened,
and why. There definitely was a anti-Bonds, San Diego twist on the incident,
but it was probably more of a nation-wide, not in SF anti-Bonds twist in
reality.

[badlands420]

Post by viper
Jeff Kent went off on another teamate David Bell, and Barry Came to
his defense and kent started shoving. The media blew it way out of
proportion, just cause it involved Bonds.

You're making our point for us. No one who defends Bonds can (or is willing
to) do so without blaming his boorish and contemptible behavior on some vast
media-wide smear campaign intent on demonizing (for no apparent reason) this
wonderful and upstanding individual. Like the nation's baseball writers
gathered in a secret bunker one day in 1987 and decided "Hey, this guy's got
a chance to be one of the best baseball players who ever lived, and he's a
really nice guy. But let's all spend the next 17 years assassinating his
character and assailing his perfectly ethical training habits. Yeah, that'll
be fun."

[XYZ]

Post by badlands420

Post by viper
Jeff Kent went off on another teamate David Bell, and Barry Came to
his defense and kent started shoving. The media blew it way out of
proportion, just cause it involved Bonds.

You're making our point for us. No one who defends Bonds can (or is willing
to) do so without blaming his boorish and contemptible behavior on some vast
media-wide smear campaign intent on demonizing (for no apparent reason) this
wonderful and upstanding individual.

I never said that he is a wonderful and upstanding individual. I don't know
one way or another what kind of individual he is off the field. He may kick
puppies in the offseason, steal kids lunch money, cheat on his wife, who
knows?

Post by badlands420
Like the nation's baseball writers
gathered in a secret bunker one day in 1987 and decided "Hey, this guy's got
a chance to be one of the best baseball players who ever lived, and he's a
really nice guy. But let's all spend the next 17 years assassinating his
character and assailing his perfectly ethical training habits. Yeah, that'll
be fun."

See, this isn't really fair, because at some point in his career (around the
mid to late nineties) it became the norm, almost "trendy", to trash him.
Bonds' trangressions were put under the microscope, and most of the
positives were overlooked.

There is nothing Bonds can do about his reputation now, whether the tag of
"asshole" is warranted or not. As they say, the toothpaste is already out of
the tube.

[badlands420]

Post by XYZ
See, this isn't really fair, because at some point in his career (around the
mid to late nineties) it became the norm, almost "trendy", to trash him.

Perhaps that's because his conduct warranted it.

[XYZ]

Post by badlands420

Post by XYZ
See, this isn't really fair, because at some point in his career (around

the

Post by XYZ
mid to late nineties) it became the norm, almost "trendy", to trash him.

Perhaps that's because his conduct warranted it.

Perhaps... if... maybe... might... could have...

... very good and concrete reasons to hate someone.

[badlands420]

Post by XYZ
Perhaps... if... maybe... might... could have...
... very good and concrete reasons to hate someone.

Stop putting words in people's mouths. It's getting old and doesn't make
your argument any less tenuous.

[XYZ]

Post by badlands420

Post by XYZ
Perhaps... if... maybe... might... could have...
... very good and concrete reasons to hate someone.

Stop putting words in people's mouths. It's getting old and doesn't make
your argument any less tenuous.

This is the first time I've put words in any one's mouth. You called Bonds a
"surly, self-obsessed sack of shit". Did I jump to conclusions when I said
you "hated" him? LMAO! It's like I'm talking to a fence-post.

It was a pleasure talking to you, too...

[badlands420]

Post by XYZ
This is the first time I've put words in any one's mouth. You called Bonds a
"surly, self-obsessed sack of shit". Did I jump to conclusions when I said
you "hated" him?

Yes. You also stupidly assumed that I would deem any athlete important
enough as to warrant hatred. He ain't Barry bin Laden, dude.

[Trace Wood]

Post by badlands420

Post by viper
Jeff Kent went off on another teamate David Bell, and Barry Came to
his defense and kent started shoving. The media blew it way out of
proportion, just cause it involved Bonds.

You're making our point for us. No one who defends Bonds can (or is

willing to) do so without blaming his boorish and contemptible behavior on some
vast media-wide smear campaign intent on demonizing (for no apparent reason)
this wonderful and upstanding individual.
I never said that he is a wonderful and upstanding individual. I don't know
one way or another what kind of individual he is off the field. He may kick
puppies in the offseason, steal kids lunch money, cheat on his wife, who
knows?

Well, the day before he was to marry his first wife, he presented her
with a pre-nup and said if you don't sign this, the wedding is off.

He dumped her anyway a few years later in favor of a stripper, but she
isn't the one he eventually took as his second wife.

I don't know if he's kicked puppies.

[Steve Marinucci]

My opinion of Barry is he is relatively shy and is afraid of saying
the wrong thing or have it misconstrued. This causing him to seem
distant.

Re: shy Barry ... I have been within a few feet of him twice, most
recently last year at the Giants
on-field photo day. He came out (and not all players did) and shook
hands with people, but didn't say very
much, as I recall. He does seem to care
about the SF fans (and I'm not just talking what's on his website ...
he's
mentioned the fans several times). Personally (and I admit I'm a
Giants fan), I
think he's just a private family-type of guy who has the pressure of
his family background (e.g. Bobby Bonds and his godfather Willie Mays)
but just bears down and plays the game. Notice you never hear stories
about Barry in a bar. He stays close to home and keeps his focus on
the game.

[Trace Wood]

Post by Steve Marinucci
Notice you never hear stories
about Barry in a bar. He stays close to home and keeps his focus on
the game.

Any proof? I never hear any stories about anyone but David Wells in a
bar, but I know for a fact that lots of players - including stars - go
there.

Btw, Bonds dumped his first wife over a stripper... that he met in a
bar.

Please stop with the blind fawning.

[XYZ]

Post by badlands420

Post by viper
So even though he was nice to you, you still think he's a prick
because others have said he was, I guess that's not mirroring the
views of others.

Question for both you and XYZ: Am I to assume that neither of you has ever
formed an opinion of something without direct firsthand involvement therein?
If you answer no, you're a hypocrite. If you answer yes, you have a serious
aversion to thought
*cue Jeopardy theme song*

I have too many opinions on first-hand involvements, already. Life's too
short and I'm too busy to develop an opinion on everything in existence.

[Randall Turner]

Post by badlands420

Post by viper
So even though he was nice to you, you still think he's a prick
because others have said he was, I guess that's not mirroring the
views of others.

Question for both you and XYZ: Am I to assume that neither of you has ever
formed an opinion of something without direct firsthand involvement therein?
If you answer no, you're a hypocrite. If you answer yes, you have a serious
aversion to thought
*cue Jeopardy theme song*

Hey, I seriously don't, Bad. Form an opinion without first hand knowledge, that
is. It's a goal more than an actuality, but I do think about it. In that respect
these guys are right, though you may be a special case if you're a writer and
know people who've had a hard time w/Barry, because presumably you're hearing
reports from people who have earned your trust.

I in general haven't had good experiences w/writers, you know, but you're an
exception.. :)

I'd like to sit down and figure out what is rubbing people the wrong way vis a
vis big name athletes telling someone to go pee up a rope. I understand that
reporters have to get stories from them, but don't see why the athletes are
obligated to like it. Some people are simply introverts. (Or shy, whatever.)

Also, an observation - I doubt anybody on this thread is going to change anybody
else's mind about Barry or anything else.

[badlands420]

Post by Randall Turner
Hey, I seriously don't, Bad. Form an opinion without first hand knowledge, that
is. It's a goal more than an actuality, but I do think about it. In that respect
these guys are right, though you may be a special case if you're a writer and
know people who've had a hard time w/Barry, because presumably you're hearing
reports from people who have earned your trust.

Yeah, precisely. Just as you've got NFL people who you know well and whose
judgement you trust implicitly. I think it's funny that I would be portrayed
as a parrot for the media, because I consider a vast majority of the
baseball writers with whom I've ever dealt to be ignorant, incompetent hacks
who aren't worth the ink it takes to print their byline. In fact, the main
reason I got out of the business was because I could not in good conscience
share a profession with some of the idiots I encountered. But the guys I
trust, the guys I cared enough to maintain relationships with, have no
reason to lie to me.

Post by Randall Turner
I in general haven't had good experiences w/writers, you know, but you're an
exception.. :)

LOL.....your free ounce of weed is in the mail, my friend.

Post by Randall Turner
I'd like to sit down and figure out what is rubbing people the wrong way vis a
vis big name athletes telling someone to go pee up a rope. I understand that
reporters have to get stories from them, but don't see why the athletes are
obligated to like it. Some people are simply introverts. (Or shy, whatever.)

My contention is that if you're THAT introverted, no one forced you to be a
public figure. When you start playing a sport with the intention of doing it
professionally (and at a very high level), it stands to reason that one of
the job requirements might be to answer a few questions from reporters after
the game. Yes, reporters ask stupid questions. Yes, reporters ask THE SAME
stupid questions over and over again for years at a time. But if the game
has given you wealth beyond your wildest dreams and the adoration of
millions, couldn't you just smile and humor the damn writers for 5-10
minutes a day? Is it that big a price to pay?

But maybe the bottom line is this: We were privileged enough to have Tony
Gwynn for 20 years, and we have higher standards than most for the manner in
which the game's immortals should conduct themselves away from the field of
play.

[Randall Turner]

Post by Randall Turner

Post by Randall Turner
Hey, I seriously don't, Bad. Form an opinion without first hand knowledge,

that

Post by Randall Turner
is. It's a goal more than an actuality, but I do think about it. In that

respect

Post by Randall Turner
these guys are right, though you may be a special case if you're a writer

and

Post by Randall Turner
know people who've had a hard time w/Barry, because presumably you're

hearing

Post by Randall Turner
reports from people who have earned your trust.

Yeah, precisely. Just as you've got NFL people who you know well and whose
judgement you trust implicitly. I think it's funny that I would be portrayed
as a parrot for the media, because I consider a vast majority of the
baseball writers with whom I've ever dealt to be ignorant, incompetent hacks
who aren't worth the ink it takes to print their byline. In fact, the main
reason I got out of the business was because I could not in good conscience
share a profession with some of the idiots I encountered. But the guys I
trust, the guys I cared enough to maintain relationships with, have no
reason to lie to me.

Post by Randall Turner
I in general haven't had good experiences w/writers, you know, but you're

an

Post by Randall Turner
exception.. :)

LOL.....your free ounce of weed is in the mail, my friend.

Post by Randall Turner
I'd like to sit down and figure out what is rubbing people the wrong way

vis a

Post by Randall Turner
vis big name athletes telling someone to go pee up a rope. I understand

that

Post by Randall Turner
reporters have to get stories from them, but don't see why the athletes

are

Post by Randall Turner
obligated to like it. Some people are simply introverts. (Or shy,

whatever.)
My contention is that if you're THAT introverted, no one forced you to be a
public figure. When you start playing a sport with the intention of doing it
professionally (and at a very high level), it stands to reason that one of
the job requirements might be to answer a few questions from reporters after
the game. Yes, reporters ask stupid questions. Yes, reporters ask THE SAME
stupid questions over and over again for years at a time. But if the game
has given you wealth beyond your wildest dreams and the adoration of
millions, couldn't you just smile and humor the damn writers for 5-10
minutes a day? Is it that big a price to pay?
But maybe the bottom line is this: We were privileged enough to have Tony
Gwynn for 20 years, and we have higher standards than most for the manner in
which the game's immortals should conduct themselves away from the field of
play.

Hey, dude, we won! ?? How'd that happen?? <g> I'm starting to like this.

Regarding being surly (or polite) to reporters - well, you know, it isn't really
a job requirement. It's in a professional athlete's best interest, to be sure.
But there is, near as I can tell, no moral obligation past that we have to, say,
be nice to telemarketers. Doesn't matter how much money he makes, either.

There is a Bonds smearing conspiracy, by the way. It's to make other pro
athletes think twice before snubbing the press. Extremely immoral, totally
self-interest motivated.

[badlands420]

Post by Randall Turner
Regarding being surly (or polite) to reporters - well, you know, it isn't really
a job requirement.

Of course not. But if you don't treat people with respect and you
consistently make their jobs more difficult, don't act so damn shocked when
you look up one day and you've got no defenders in the media. I don't think
Barry has any concept of the causality of his actions, which is the most
troubling aspect of his personality. He's added 20 pounds of solid muscle
since age 35 and he wonders why people ask him about steroids. He's been a
total dickhead to 90% of the writers he's ever encountered, and he wonders
why he isn't portrayed in a more positive light. But the hell with it, let's
just keep him in the yard tomorrow.

[XYZ]

Post by FunKiNjEfF

Post by XYZ
You can have ANY opinion you want; I never said you couldn't. But at least
back it up. Generalizing Barry Bonds as a "surly, self-obsessed sack of
shit" without even meeting the guy is as useless, unfounded and arbitrary as
me saying that I hate Niagara Falls because of the pictures I've seen, even
though I've never actually been, or hating a band without hearing any of
their music.

Or saying Michael Jackson is a child molester without him ever putting his
finger in your 8 year old boy's bunghole. Or saying OJ is a wife killer
without him ever cutting your loved one's throat. Or that Courtney Love is a
crazy druggie without ever having slammed herion with her.

<sigh>... Comparing Bonds with convicted fellons, alleged murderers and
crazed druggies (well, Bonds may be a druggie but he's not crazed =) )?
Aye... Barry Bonds is never going to go to trial for being an asshole.

Post by FunKiNjEfF
Should I continue?

If you wish.

Post by FunKiNjEfF
BTW, I hate O Town's music, and I've never heard one of their songs.

I've only heard snippets of their music, but what really turned me off of
them was that retarded show of theirs on MTV... Making the band, I think it
was...

[badlands420]

Post by XYZ
<sigh>... Comparing Bonds with convicted fellons, alleged murderers and
crazed druggies (well, Bonds may be a druggie but he's not crazed =) )?
Aye... Barry Bonds is never going to go to trial for being an asshole.

He was pointing out (correctly) the inherent logical flaw of your argument.
Nobody suggested that Bonds doesn't have the right to be an asshole, that
he's a bad husband or father, or any of the other things you seem to have
heard but which no one said.

[The Campbell Clan]

Newsflash to XYZ:

Evidence that Bonds the Juice Box is an asshole...how about this: Opening
Night, Bonds left the dugout and started walking towards the third base line
two players before he was actually announced. Not obvious on TV, but very
obvious in person. By doing so he showed up his own teammates.

Ever actually played the game asswipe? That classless move shows a total
lack of respect for his teammates, the opposition and the fans. He was
willing to possibly fuck up a once in a lifetime event just so his lazy fat
ass would not have to jog.

I've SEEN Barry Bonds pull all kinds of arrogant bullshit. OK, it is
possible there has always been a logical valid explanation. But I have
never once heard one. If there was always an explanation, would it not be
likely I would have at least heard rumors of it at least once? Barry Bonds
is a very talented athlete who is one of the best to ever play the game. So
was Ty Fucking Cobb. Bonds is an arrogant SOB. I have no respect for him
as a person, only respect for his abilities.

[XYZ]

Post by The Campbell Clan
Evidence that Bonds the Juice Box is an asshole...how about this: Opening
Night, Bonds left the dugout and started walking towards the third base line
two players before he was actually announced. Not obvious on TV, but very
obvious in person. By doing so he showed up his own teammates.
Ever actually played the game asswipe? That classless move shows a total
lack of respect for his teammates, the opposition and the fans. He was
willing to possibly fuck up a once in a lifetime event just so his lazy fat
ass would not have to jog.

You name ONE incident? LMFAO! Hey, I heard Phil Nevin flipped off the entire
home crowd ONE time. Does that make him a general asshole, too?

Post by The Campbell Clan
I've SEEN Barry Bonds pull all kinds of arrogant bullshit.

Start the list then. Come on, I'm waiting for someone, anyone from this
group to come up with a list, one that is not taken from Sports Illustated.
I've just about given up hope, though...

[The Campbell Clan]

Exhibit one just mentioned: you replied to it.

How about restraining myself to the last couple of weeks?

Same night as we already talked about: Instead of making a real effort at
Burroughs game winning hit, Juice Box decides he isn't going to get it and
starts heading for the dugout. Way to lay out for the team Barry.

Quote to the national media: "They made it baseball proof." Talking about
whether Petco Park is "Bonds-proof" (an idea that actually WAS started by
the media.) In other words, anyone who's game is not based around the home
run is not really playing baseball? Way to give absolutely no credit to
anyone who played the game before 1925 and created what has made you an
asshole millionaire. How about your own teammates who work on the mound?
Think they have anything to do with your team ever winning a game? BARRY'S
OWN GODFATHER DISPUTED THIS STATEMENT! I have nothing but respect for Willie
Mays.

Responding to talk about going after Aaron's record, he once again talked
about being better than Babe Ruth and how we can "quit talking about him"
after Barry passes him (which I do think will happen). Barry, you will
never be considered a better all-around player than the Babe until you learn
how to FUCKIN' PITCH! Ruth was a top notch pitcher who they converted to
get his bat in the lineup every day. Plus he didn't wear more armor at the
plate than the catcher and umpire combined.

Barry Bonds is a great ballplayer AND an incredible asshole.
Opening

Post by XYZ

Post by The Campbell Clan
Night, Bonds left the dugout and started walking towards the third base

line

Post by The Campbell Clan
two players before he was actually announced. Not obvious on TV, but very
obvious in person. By doing so he showed up his own teammates.
Ever actually played the game asswipe? That classless move shows a total
lack of respect for his teammates, the opposition and the fans. He was
willing to possibly fuck up a once in a lifetime event just so his lazy

fat

Post by The Campbell Clan
ass would not have to jog.

You name ONE incident? LMFAO! Hey, I heard Phil Nevin flipped off the entire
home crowd ONE time. Does that make him a general asshole, too?

Post by The Campbell Clan
I've SEEN Barry Bonds pull all kinds of arrogant bullshit.

Start the list then. Come on, I'm waiting for someone, anyone from this
group to come up with a list, one that is not taken from Sports Illustated.
I've just about given up hope, though...

[viper]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:48:36 -0700, "The Campbell Clan"

Post by The Campbell Clan
Exhibit one just mentioned: you replied to it.
How about restraining myself to the last couple of weeks?
Same night as we already talked about: Instead of making a real effort at
Burroughs game winning hit, Juice Box decides he isn't going to get it and
starts heading for the dugout. Way to lay out for the team Barry.

The ball was uncatchable and Barry has such nowledge of what he can
get and what he can't. Look at what happened to Nevin last year, him
being injured hurt the Pads greatly, if Bonds were to get hurt for a
good part of the season the Giants line up would have 4 players that
would not hit higher then 8th on any other team instead of 3 (Not
including pitcher)

Post by The Campbell Clan
Quote to the national media: "They made it baseball proof." Talking about
whether Petco Park is "Bonds-proof" (an idea that actually WAS started by
the media.) In other words, anyone who's game is not based around the home
run is not really playing baseball? Way to give absolutely no credit to
anyone who played the game before 1925 and created what has made you an
asshole millionaire. How about your own teammates who work on the mound?
Think they have anything to do with your team ever winning a game? BARRY'S
OWN GODFATHER DISPUTED THIS STATEMENT! I have nothing but respect for Willie
Mays.

Um last I checked Pacbell is a Pitchers Park.

He was probably a bit Frustrated when he said that, he had about 3
balls that just died that would have been HR's at Qualcom. Bonds is
the only Offensive Threat the Giants have.

I went to "The Field" in the Gaslamp District on 5th ave. and they
have the best Fish and Chips, and their Shephards Pie is so good.

Post by The Campbell Clan
Responding to talk about going after Aaron's record, he once again talked
about being better than Babe Ruth and how we can "quit talking about him"
after Barry passes him (which I do think will happen). Barry, you will
never be considered a better all-around player than the Babe until you learn
how to FUCKIN' PITCH! Ruth was a top notch pitcher who they converted to
get his bat in the lineup every day. Plus he didn't wear more armor at the
plate than the catcher and umpire combined.

As for that I don't know what the fuck he was thinking, Bonds may be
a better hitter, better fielder, but Ruth will always have the record
most consecutive shutout innings a World Series game with 14 innings,
which will never be broken.

Post by The Campbell Clan
Barry Bonds is a great ballplayer AND an incredible asshole.
Opening

Post by XYZ

Post by The Campbell Clan
Night, Bonds left the dugout and started walking towards the third base

line

Post by The Campbell Clan
two players before he was actually announced. Not obvious on TV, but

very

Post by XYZ

Post by The Campbell Clan
obvious in person. By doing so he showed up his own teammates.
Ever actually played the game asswipe? That classless move shows a

total

Post by XYZ

Post by The Campbell Clan
lack of respect for his teammates, the opposition and the fans. He was
willing to possibly fuck up a once in a lifetime event just so his lazy

fat

Post by The Campbell Clan
ass would not have to jog.

You name ONE incident? LMFAO! Hey, I heard Phil Nevin flipped off the

entire

Post by XYZ
home crowd ONE time. Does that make him a general asshole, too?

Post by The Campbell Clan
I've SEEN Barry Bonds pull all kinds of arrogant bullshit.

Start the list then. Come on, I'm waiting for someone, anyone from this
group to come up with a list, one that is not taken from Sports

Illustated.

Post by XYZ
I've just about given up hope, though...

[XYZ]

Post by The Campbell Clan
Exhibit one just mentioned: you replied to it.
How about restraining myself to the last couple of weeks?
Same night as we already talked about: Instead of making a real effort at
Burroughs game winning hit, Juice Box decides he isn't going to get it and
starts heading for the dugout. Way to lay out for the team Barry.

You mean the ball that bounced in front of him with the winning run on
third? What was he supposed to do? Try and throw the runner out at home?
LMAO! As soon as the ball hit the ground, the game was over. Why shouldn't
he have headed toward the dugout? The whole team headed to the dugout at
that point.


If you're suggesting that Bonds should have "layed out" to try and catch it,
I'll say this: Bonds is almost 40, not some 20-something outfielder. He is
also the only real offensive threat on SF. To risk losing Bonds for a month,
maybe even for the year to try and save 1 game, is not worth it, not by a
long shot.

Same goes for the risk of him running out routine grounders. What good would
this do for SF? To have a runner on first for a bunch of scrubs who won't be
able to hit him in anyway?

Post by The Campbell Clan
Quote to the national media: "They made it baseball proof." Talking about
whether Petco Park is "Bonds-proof" (an idea that actually WAS started by
the media.) In other words, anyone who's game is not based around the home
run is not really playing baseball? <snip>

"In other words". I love that. You might as well have just say "In my
words"...

Post by The Campbell Clan
Responding to talk about going after Aaron's record, he once again talked
about being better than Babe Ruth and how we can "quit talking about him"
after Barry passes him (which I do think will happen). Barry, you will
never be considered a better all-around player than the Babe until you learn
how to FUCKIN' PITCH! Ruth was a top notch pitcher who they converted to
get his bat in the lineup every day. Plus he didn't wear more armor at the
plate than the catcher and umpire combined.

Of course, Barry has made hundreds of humble and polite comments regarding
the HR records, including several this week regarding 660 and 661. This is
the one that everyone remembers, though.

[Randall Turner]

Post by XYZ

Post by The Campbell Clan
Exhibit one just mentioned: you replied to it.
How about restraining myself to the last couple of weeks?
Same night as we already talked about: Instead of making a real effort at
Burroughs game winning hit, Juice Box decides he isn't going to get it and
starts heading for the dugout. Way to lay out for the team Barry.

You mean the ball that bounced in front of him with the winning run on
third? What was he supposed to do? Try and throw the runner out at home?
LMAO! As soon as the ball hit the ground, the game was over. Why shouldn't
he have headed toward the dugout? The whole team headed to the dugout at
that point.
If you're suggesting that Bonds should have "layed out" to try and catch it,
I'll say this: Bonds is almost 40, not some 20-something outfielder. He is
also the only real offensive threat on SF. To risk losing Bonds for a month,
maybe even for the year to try and save 1 game, is not worth it, not by a
long shot.
Same goes for the risk of him running out routine grounders. What good would
this do for SF? To have a runner on first for a bunch of scrubs who won't be
able to hit him in anyway?

Post by The Campbell Clan
Quote to the national media: "They made it baseball proof." Talking about
whether Petco Park is "Bonds-proof" (an idea that actually WAS started by
the media.) In other words, anyone who's game is not based around the

home

Post by The Campbell Clan
run is not really playing baseball? <snip>

"In other words". I love that. You might as well have just say "In my
words"...

Post by The Campbell Clan
Responding to talk about going after Aaron's record, he once again talked
about being better than Babe Ruth and how we can "quit talking about him"
after Barry passes him (which I do think will happen). Barry, you will
never be considered a better all-around player than the Babe until you

learn

Post by The Campbell Clan
how to FUCKIN' PITCH! Ruth was a top notch pitcher who they converted to
get his bat in the lineup every day. Plus he didn't wear more armor at the
plate than the catcher and umpire combined.

Of course, Barry has made hundreds of humble and polite comments regarding
the HR records, including several this week regarding 660 and 661. This is
the one that everyone remembers, though.

You're on this. I've done a lot of thinking about it too, and have come up with
some theories. Sports are performance centric. You don't really have to own good
interpersonal skills to succeed, and the better you are the less critical they
are, especially extra-squad personal skills. Only to a point, though. After
college they become more important. A solid player can still be introverted
without significant downside but real superstars get into media relations issues
that "normal" players don't, and if they are uncomfortable speaking in a public
forum usually get demonized for it.

[XYZ]

Post by Randall Turner

Post by XYZ
Of course, Barry has made hundreds of humble and polite comments regarding
the HR records, including several this week regarding 660 and 661. This is
the one that everyone remembers, though.

You're on this. I've done a lot of thinking about it too, and have come up with
some theories. Sports are performance centric. You don't really have to own good
interpersonal skills to succeed, and the better you are the less critical they
are, especially extra-squad personal skills. Only to a point, though. After
college they become more important. A solid player can still be introverted
without significant downside but real superstars get into media relations issues
that "normal" players don't, and if they are uncomfortable speaking in a public
forum usually get demonized for it.

Interesting point. Also, this thought goes along with what viper said in
another post, that Barry is sort of a private and shy guy, with very sub-par
"people skills"...

[Randall Turner]

Post by XYZ
Also, this thought goes along with what viper said in
another post, that Barry is sort of a private and shy guy, with very sub-par
"people skills"...

That's a given, or at least that he doesn't enjoy attention as much as some.

I'm posting too much. :)

[The Campbell Clan]

P.S. Difference between Phil and Barry...Phil did it in a moment ruled by
emotion. Mistake, yes. But Barry does not care enough about the fans who
created the demand that allows him to earn his salary to ever be passionate
enough for such a gesture. Many ballplayers have this failure to appreciate
the fans, it is not unique to BB. But it is one more reason I dislike him.
Opening

Post by XYZ

Post by The Campbell Clan
Night, Bonds left the dugout and started walking towards the third base

line

Post by The Campbell Clan
two players before he was actually announced. Not obvious on TV, but very
obvious in person. By doing so he showed up his own teammates.
Ever actually played the game asswipe? That classless move shows a total
lack of respect for his teammates, the opposition and the fans. He was
willing to possibly fuck up a once in a lifetime event just so his lazy

fat

Post by The Campbell Clan
ass would not have to jog.

You name ONE incident? LMFAO! Hey, I heard Phil Nevin flipped off the entire
home crowd ONE time. Does that make him a general asshole, too?

Post by The Campbell Clan
I've SEEN Barry Bonds pull all kinds of arrogant bullshit.

Start the list then. Come on, I'm waiting for someone, anyone from this
group to come up with a list, one that is not taken from Sports Illustated.
I've just about given up hope, though...

[Randall Turner]

None of this makes a bit of sense to me. Are you sure he didn't stiff you for a
quote?

Post by The Campbell Clan
P.S. Difference between Phil and Barry...Phil did it in a moment ruled by
emotion. Mistake, yes. But Barry does not care enough about the fans who
created the demand that allows him to earn his salary to ever be passionate
enough for such a gesture. Many ballplayers have this failure to appreciate
the fans, it is not unique to BB. But it is one more reason I dislike him.
Opening

Post by XYZ

Post by The Campbell Clan
Night, Bonds left the dugout and started walking towards the third base

line

Post by The Campbell Clan
two players before he was actually announced. Not obvious on TV, but

very

Post by XYZ

Post by The Campbell Clan
obvious in person. By doing so he showed up his own teammates.
Ever actually played the game asswipe? That classless move shows a

total

Post by XYZ

Post by The Campbell Clan
lack of respect for his teammates, the opposition and the fans. He was
willing to possibly fuck up a once in a lifetime event just so his lazy

fat

Post by The Campbell Clan
ass would not have to jog.

You name ONE incident? LMFAO! Hey, I heard Phil Nevin flipped off the

entire

Post by XYZ
home crowd ONE time. Does that make him a general asshole, too?

Post by The Campbell Clan
I've SEEN Barry Bonds pull all kinds of arrogant bullshit.

Start the list then. Come on, I'm waiting for someone, anyone from this
group to come up with a list, one that is not taken from Sports

Illustated.

Post by XYZ
I've just about given up hope, though...

[XYZ]

Post by Randall Turner
None of this makes a bit of sense to me. Are you sure he didn't stiff you for a
quote?

Ah, the power of the media in forming people's opinions for them. It's
actually pretty scary when you think about it...

[SDPadreBob]

HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER,
HITLER, HITLER

Barry Bonds is an asshole. :-)

[XYZ]

Post by SDPadreBob
HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER, HITLER,
HITLER, HITLER
Barry Bonds is an asshole. :-)

LOL =)

[TOMMY BOY]

hi.......bob........you know who......is as big as a house!

[viper]

Does Nevin have a Web Site to communicate with his fans


On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 12:52:22 -0700, "The Campbell Clan"

Post by The Campbell Clan
P.S. Difference between Phil and Barry...Phil did it in a moment ruled by
emotion. Mistake, yes. But Barry does not care enough about the fans who
created the demand that allows him to earn his salary to ever be passionate
enough for such a gesture. Many ballplayers have this failure to appreciate
the fans, it is not unique to BB. But it is one more reason I dislike him.
Opening

Post by XYZ

Post by The Campbell Clan
Night, Bonds left the dugout and started walking towards the third base

line

Post by The Campbell Clan
two players before he was actually announced. Not obvious on TV, but

very

Post by XYZ

Post by The Campbell Clan
obvious in person. By doing so he showed up his own teammates.
Ever actually played the game asswipe? That classless move shows a

total

Post by XYZ

Post by The Campbell Clan
lack of respect for his teammates, the opposition and the fans. He was
willing to possibly fuck up a once in a lifetime event just so his lazy

fat

Post by The Campbell Clan
ass would not have to jog.

You name ONE incident? LMFAO! Hey, I heard Phil Nevin flipped off the

entire

Post by XYZ
home crowd ONE time. Does that make him a general asshole, too?

Post by The Campbell Clan
I've SEEN Barry Bonds pull all kinds of arrogant bullshit.

Start the list then. Come on, I'm waiting for someone, anyone from this
group to come up with a list, one that is not taken from Sports

Illustated.

Post by XYZ
I've just about given up hope, though...

[badlands420]

Post by viper
Does Nevin have a Web Site to communicate with his fans

No. He's too shy and introverted.

[XYZ]

Post by The Campbell Clan
P.S. Difference between Phil and Barry...Phil did it in a moment ruled by
emotion. Mistake, yes. But Barry does not care enough about the fans who
created the demand that allows him to earn his salary to ever be passionate
enough for such a gesture. Many ballplayers have this failure to appreciate
the fans, it is not unique to BB. But it is one more reason I dislike him.

A "mistake", huh? Dropping an F bomb during a press conference is a mistake.
Swinging at ball 4 or committing a baserunning error is a mistake. Flipping
off tens of thousands of fans in your home park is not.

Phil made one of the most obscene gestures you can possibly make, and made
it to Padre fans who have supported him for years in his own home park.
Bonds would never have done that, because he actually appreciates the SF
fans, taking curtain calls after homeruns, etc. What Nevin did is 10 times
worse that anything Bonds has "supposedly" done.

P.S. Stop top-posting.

[Randall Turner]

Hey! Quit being a top-posting nazi!

( See, that's how you do the Hitler dealie. )

ps - oops didn't cap Nazi, oh dear. :)

Post by The Campbell Clan

Post by The Campbell Clan
P.S. Difference between Phil and Barry...Phil did it in a moment ruled by
emotion. Mistake, yes. But Barry does not care enough about the fans who
created the demand that allows him to earn his salary to ever be

passionate

Post by The Campbell Clan
enough for such a gesture. Many ballplayers have this failure to

appreciate

Post by The Campbell Clan
the fans, it is not unique to BB. But it is one more reason I dislike

him.
A "mistake", huh? Dropping an F bomb during a press conference is a mistake.
Swinging at ball 4 or committing a baserunning error is a mistake. Flipping
off tens of thousands of fans in your home park is not.
Phil made one of the most obscene gestures you can possibly make, and made
it to Padre fans who have supported him for years in his own home park.
Bonds would never have done that, because he actually appreciates the SF
fans, taking curtain calls after homeruns, etc. What Nevin did is 10 times
worse that anything Bonds has "supposedly" done.
P.S. Stop top-posting.

[XYZ]

Post by Randall Turner
Hey! Quit being a top-posting nazi!
( See, that's how you do the Hitler dealie. )
ps - oops didn't cap Nazi, oh dear. :)

I usually don't mind if a sentence or two is top posted. It's when the
message is long, and points are addressed all at once instead of inline,
like they should be, that I have a problem...

[badlands420]

Post by XYZ
You name ONE incident? LMFAO! Hey, I heard Phil Nevin flipped off the entire
home crowd ONE time. Does that make him a general asshole, too?

We never claimed Phil Nevin wasn't an asshole. He wouldn't even tell you
that.

[Seapig]

Post by Randall Turner

Post by Randall Turner
This criticism is misguided. Many superstar athletes aren't participants

in

Post by Randall Turner
their respective collective bargaining agreement organizations. Barry

didn't

Post by Randall Turner
specifically target your son, he (like Aikman, Deion, etc) made a business
decision that he didn't want to sign away his own marketing rights.

Yup. Just because he's an asshole and a bad guy doesn't mean he shouldn't
have the same rights as everybody else. Would any of us want to be told what
we could and couldn't do with our own name and likeness?

You've taken enough flack from the Bonds Appreciation Society, so I'm
going to hit you from the other direction:

What are they doing with his name and likeness? Showing him playing
baseball. It's not like it's a game where you see how many
prostitutes you can kill with a 'roid-raging Bonds.

Every other member of the MLBPA was okay with being in the game.
Bonds seems to think that just because he's better than everybody
else, that makes him better than everybody else. I didn't mean to
sound like Yogi Berra there, but I think you know what I mean.

[XYZ]

Post by Seapig
Every other member of the MLBPA was okay with being in the game.
Bonds seems to think that just because he's better than everybody
else... <snip>

Pure, absolute, unfounded, subjective supposition on your part (what a
surprise!). Either provide a link stating this was the reason Bonds left the
MLBPA, or STFU about it. It's not like its totally unprecidented. Athletes
have been doing it in other sports for years.

[badlands420]

Post by XYZ
Pure, absolute, unfounded, subjective supposition on your part (what a
surprise!). Either provide a link stating this was the reason Bonds left the
MLBPA, or STFU about it.

Hey, look who went and joined the Usenet Thought Police!

Does the phrase "unmoderated public forum" mean anything to you?

[XYZ]

Post by badlands420

Post by XYZ
Pure, absolute, unfounded, subjective supposition on your part (what a
surprise!). Either provide a link stating this was the reason Bonds left

the

Post by XYZ
MLBPA, or STFU about it.

Hey, look who went and joined the Usenet Thought Police!
Does the phrase "unmoderated public forum" mean anything to you?

Oh, he has every right in to world to say whatever he wants on Usenet, just
as I have every right to tell him to STFU about anything he says on Usenet.

But saying things like "Bonds thinks he is better than everyone else" does
nothing to promote the anti-Bonds side of the debate. It's just more,
unsubstantiated, obviously biased, anti-Bonds drivel.

[badlands420]

Post by XYZ
Oh, he has every right in to world to say whatever he wants on Usenet, just
as I have every right to tell him to STFU about anything he says on Usenet.

Just as I have every right to laugh at you for telling him to STFU.

Post by XYZ
But saying things like "Bonds thinks he is better than everyone else" does
nothing to promote the anti-Bonds side of the debate. It's just more,
unsubstantiated, obviously biased, anti-Bonds drivel.

What anti-Bonds side of the debate? Nobody here has anything but glowing
praise for his talent and accomplishments. I'm always quick to point out
that he's the best baseball player I've ever seen. Are you *honestly*
suggesting that we're anti-Bonds just because we don't think he's an awesome
guy?

[Big Al]

Post by XYZ

Post by XYZ
Oh, he has every right in to world to say whatever he wants on Usenet,

just

Post by XYZ
as I have every right to tell him to STFU about anything he says on

Usenet.
Just as I have every right to laugh at you for telling him to STFU.

Post by XYZ
But saying things like "Bonds thinks he is better than everyone else" does
nothing to promote the anti-Bonds side of the debate. It's just more,
unsubstantiated, obviously biased, anti-Bonds drivel.

What anti-Bonds side of the debate? Nobody here has anything but glowing
praise for his talent and accomplishments. I'm always quick to point out
that he's the best baseball player I've ever seen. Are you *honestly*
suggesting that we're anti-Bonds just because we don't think he's an awesome
guy?

Badland, talking to these guys is like talking to the wall. All that matters
to them is that Bonds wears the laundry of the team they root for. I'll bet
that if Barry Bonds was the son of Maury Wills, was Roy Campenella's
godchild, and played for the Dodgers, they would be the first ones in line
ripping him a new one if he stiffed a reporter.

[XYZ]

Post by badlands420

Post by XYZ

Post by XYZ
Oh, he has every right in to world to say whatever he wants on Usenet,

just

Post by XYZ
as I have every right to tell him to STFU about anything he says on

Usenet.
Just as I have every right to laugh at you for telling him to STFU.

Post by XYZ
But saying things like "Bonds thinks he is better than everyone else"

does

Post by XYZ

Post by XYZ
nothing to promote the anti-Bonds side of the debate. It's just more,
unsubstantiated, obviously biased, anti-Bonds drivel.

What anti-Bonds side of the debate? Nobody here has anything but glowing
praise for his talent and accomplishments. I'm always quick to point out
that he's the best baseball player I've ever seen. Are you *honestly*
suggesting that we're anti-Bonds just because we don't think he's an

awesome

Post by XYZ
guy?

Badland, talking to these guys is like talking to the wall. All that matters
to them is that Bonds wears the laundry of the team they root for. I'll bet
that if Barry Bonds was the son of Maury Wills, was Roy Campenella's
godchild, and played for the Dodgers, they would be the first ones in line
ripping him a new one if he stiffed a reporter.

Nope. Only if they had stiffed me. In fact, the only baseball player I have
ever thought was an "asshole" was Mike LaCoss. I asked him for an autograph
before a game when I was about 13. He shouted, "Beat it kid! I'm busy!". Now
Mike may be a swell guy who was having a bad day, but he will *always* be an
asshole to me.

Also, I have met Cory Snyder, and I happen to think he is a pretty good guy,
even though he had tenures with both SF and LA.

Other than these two players, though, I only judge baseball players on their
talent. Even Manny Ramirez...

[Big Al]

Post by Big Al

Post by badlands420

Post by XYZ

Post by XYZ
Oh, he has every right in to world to say whatever he wants on Usenet,

just

Post by XYZ
as I have every right to tell him to STFU about anything he says on

Usenet.
Just as I have every right to laugh at you for telling him to STFU.

Post by XYZ
But saying things like "Bonds thinks he is better than everyone else"

does

Post by XYZ

Post by XYZ
nothing to promote the anti-Bonds side of the debate. It's just more,
unsubstantiated, obviously biased, anti-Bonds drivel.

What anti-Bonds side of the debate? Nobody here has anything but glowing
praise for his talent and accomplishments. I'm always quick to point out
that he's the best baseball player I've ever seen. Are you *honestly*
suggesting that we're anti-Bonds just because we don't think he's an

awesome

Post by XYZ
guy?

Badland, talking to these guys is like talking to the wall. All that

matters

Post by badlands420
to them is that Bonds wears the laundry of the team they root for. I'll

bet

Post by badlands420
that if Barry Bonds was the son of Maury Wills, was Roy Campenella's
godchild, and played for the Dodgers, they would be the first ones in line
ripping him a new one if he stiffed a reporter.

Nope. Only if they had stiffed me. In fact, the only baseball player I have
ever thought was an "asshole" was Mike LaCoss. I asked him for an autograph
before a game when I was about 13. He shouted, "Beat it kid! I'm busy!". Now
Mike may be a swell guy who was having a bad day, but he will *always* be an
asshole to me.
Also, I have met Cory Snyder, and I happen to think he is a pretty good guy,
even though he had tenures with both SF and LA.
Other than these two players, though, I only judge baseball players on their
talent. Even Manny Ramirez...

If that is the case, I salute you on your objectivity. If Bonds was a Padre
and he killed the Giants and Dodgers on a regular basis, I would be more
pre-disposed to liking him than if he were a Giant that killed us all the
time. Is this shallow and simplistic and does not take into account the
"whole person"? Yes but so what, it is only baseball. Baseball is
entertainment and I treat it as such. Is Barry Bonds a good husband, father,
ethical in dealing with his friends and associates? I don't know and any
opinion that I may have on that would not change the reality of whether he
is or isn't. Just like the steroids controversy, either he does or doesn't
and what I (or anyone else) thinks will not change that basic fact. Have I
formed opinions on athletes based on the team I root for and what I read in
the press? Yes. Have I later been proven wrong? Yes. Do I lose sleep over
it? No.

[Randall Turner]

Post by Big Al
Badland, talking to these guys is like talking to the wall. All that matters
to them is that Bonds wears the laundry of the team they root for. I'll bet
that if Barry Bonds was the son of Maury Wills, was Roy Campenella's
godchild, and played for the Dodgers, they would be the first ones in line
ripping him a new one if he stiffed a reporter.

Hey. I am not a Giants fan.

[Big Al]

Post by Randall Turner

Post by Big Al
Badland, talking to these guys is like talking to the wall. All that matters
to them is that Bonds wears the laundry of the team they root for. I'll bet
that if Barry Bonds was the son of Maury Wills, was Roy Campenella's
godchild, and played for the Dodgers, they would be the first ones in line
ripping him a new one if he stiffed a reporter.

Hey. I am not a Giants fan.

OK, what do you think about Ryan Leaf :-)

<wasn't referring to you as I followed you for years on the Charger board
and respect your integrity and honesty>

[badlands420]

Post by Big Al
OK, what do you think about Ryan Leaf :-)

Oh, that was COLD!

[Randall Turner]

Post by badlands420

Post by Big Al
OK, what do you think about Ryan Leaf :-)

Oh, that was COLD!

Valid, though. <shrug> And how many hearts and minds were swayed on that issue?
Like, none?

[Big Al]

Post by XYZ

Post by badlands420

Post by XYZ
Pure, absolute, unfounded, subjective supposition on your part (what a
surprise!). Either provide a link stating this was the reason Bonds left

the

Post by XYZ
MLBPA, or STFU about it.

Hey, look who went and joined the Usenet Thought Police!
Does the phrase "unmoderated public forum" mean anything to you?

Oh, he has every right in to world to say whatever he wants on Usenet, just
as I have every right to tell him to STFU about anything he says on Usenet.
But saying things like "Bonds thinks he is better than everyone else" does
nothing to promote the anti-Bonds side of the debate. It's just more,
unsubstantiated, obviously biased, anti-Bonds drivel.

Geez, if anyone want to see what the future has in store for all these Gnat
fan Barry Bonds nutsack lickers when the Roided one retires, just looks the
Pete Rose thread.

[Seapig]

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig
Every other member of the MLBPA was okay with being in the game.
Bonds seems to think that just because he's better than everybody
else... <snip>

Pure, absolute, unfounded, subjective supposition on your part (what a
surprise!). Either provide a link stating this was the reason Bonds left the
MLBPA, or STFU about it.

Provide a link to what? You can't possibly want a link to a media
source, because we all know how you feel about it when we just parrot
what the media feeds us.

There's no link. It's called an opinion. Of course it's supposition,
that's why I wrote "Bonds SEEMS to think..." - I'm not a mind reader.
As for whether it's unfounded, feel free to present a more feasible
explanation for why Bonds would reject the MLBPA licensing deal. I'll
reserve the right to laugh at you if you attribute it to anything
other than greed and arrogance.

Post by XYZ
It's not like its totally unprecidented. Athletes
have been doing it in other sports for years.

No. Really? You mean there are greedy, selfish bastards in other
sports? Hard to believe. Provide a link.

[badlands420]

Post by Seapig
No. Really? You mean there are greedy, selfish bastards in other
sports? Hard to believe. Provide a link.

To the wall.....at the wall......OVER THE WALL!

[XYZ]

Post by Seapig
Provide a link to what? You can't possibly want a link to a media
source, because we all know how you feel about it when we just parrot
what the media feeds us.
There's no link. It's called an opinion.

No shit! Jesus Christ! "Unfounded" opinions are what this entire thread has
been about.

Post by Seapig
Of course it's supposition,
that's why I wrote "Bonds SEEMS to think..." - I'm not a mind reader.

Then stop trying to read Bonds' mind.

Post by Seapig
As for whether it's unfounded, feel free to present a more feasible
explanation for why Bonds would reject the MLBPA licensing deal. I'll
reserve the right to laugh at you if you attribute it to anything
other than greed and arrogance.

Greed? Most probably. But does wanting more money make him an asshole? If
that's the case, all of MLB, all sports, in fact, the entire human race are
all assholes.

Arrogance? Who knows? But I don't see how it would help his "ego" by leaving
MLBPA. If anything, his name and face will now be plastered on far LESS
things across the world than before.

[Seapig]

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig
Provide a link to what? You can't possibly want a link to a media
source, because we all know how you feel about it when we just parrot
what the media feeds us.
There's no link. It's called an opinion.

No shit! Jesus Christ! "Unfounded" opinions are what this entire thread has
been about.

When one player out of a thousand refuses to be a part of the
licensing deal, that's evidence that the one might think he's more
special than the other 999. Nothing unfounded about that. Unfounded
would be the suggestion that Bonds' reputation is the result of some
vast media conspiracy against him.

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig
Of course it's supposition,
that's why I wrote "Bonds SEEMS to think..." - I'm not a mind reader.

Then stop trying to read Bonds' mind.

I'm not trying to read his mind. I'm reading his actions, and he's
acting like somebody who thinks he's better than everybody else.

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig
As for whether it's unfounded, feel free to present a more feasible
explanation for why Bonds would reject the MLBPA licensing deal. I'll
reserve the right to laugh at you if you attribute it to anything
other than greed and arrogance.

Greed? Most probably. But does wanting more money make him an asshole? If
that's the case, all of MLB, all sports, in fact, the entire human race are
all assholes.
Arrogance? Who knows? But I don't see how it would help his "ego" by leaving
MLBPA. If anything, his name and face will now be plastered on far LESS
things across the world than before.

Like you said, everybody's greedy. But Bonds was the only one to put
that greed to work by opting out of this deal. Call it arrogance, or
crassness, or just a lack of gratitude, he's got something extra.

[XYZ]

Post by Seapig

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig
Provide a link to what? You can't possibly want a link to a media
source, because we all know how you feel about it when we just parrot
what the media feeds us.
There's no link. It's called an opinion.

No shit! Jesus Christ! "Unfounded" opinions are what this entire thread has
been about.

When one player out of a thousand refuses to be a part of the
licensing deal, that's evidence that the one might think he's more
special than the other 999. Nothing unfounded about that. Unfounded
would be the suggestion that Bonds' reputation is the result of some
vast media conspiracy against him.

Here we go again... <sigh> "might", "perhaps", "if", "maybe"...

Bonds' bad reputation and the reason for that bad reputation is not what is
in question here. What I'm disputing is people forming their own personal
(unfounded) opinions on Bonds, based on this media-reported reputation.

Post by Seapig

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig
Of course it's supposition,
that's why I wrote "Bonds SEEMS to think..." - I'm not a mind reader.

Then stop trying to read Bonds' mind.

I'm not trying to read his mind. I'm reading his actions, and he's
acting like somebody who thinks he's better than everybody else.

That's still *your* twist on the issue. All you know for sure is that he's
acting like somebody who wanted out of MLBPA.

[Seapig]

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig
Provide a link to what? You can't possibly want a link to a media
source, because we all know how you feel about it when we just parrot
what the media feeds us.
There's no link. It's called an opinion.

No shit! Jesus Christ! "Unfounded" opinions are what this entire thread

has

Post by Seapig

Post by XYZ
been about.

When one player out of a thousand refuses to be a part of the
licensing deal, that's evidence that the one might think he's more
special than the other 999. Nothing unfounded about that. Unfounded
would be the suggestion that Bonds' reputation is the result of some
vast media conspiracy against him.

Here we go again... <sigh> "might", "perhaps", "if", "maybe"...

You can put the "perhaps", "if" and "maybe" back up your ass where you
found them. As for the "might", I had to qualify my statement,
otherwise I would be trying to read Bonds' mind, and you asked me not
to do that.

Something can be a strong indicator of something else, without being
absolute proof of it. Do you really fail to grasp that simple
concept? If you ever get called for jury duty, please try to get out
of it.

Post by XYZ
Bonds' bad reputation and the reason for that bad reputation is not what is
in question here. What I'm disputing is people forming their own personal
(unfounded) opinions on Bonds, based on this media-reported reputation.

You spend a lot of time patting yourself on the back for not basing
your opinion of Bonds on anything other than firsthand experience.
Maybe you should try extending that courtesy to the members of this
group. Where do you get the idea that we're a bunch of dupes for the
media? Have you personally witnessed us all reading the paper, while
nodding in agreement and taking notes?

All I've based any opinion on in this discussion is Bonds' withdrawal
from the MLBPA licensing deal. There's no dispute that he did
withdraw from the MLBPA licensing deal, the media didn't make that up.

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig
Of course it's supposition,
that's why I wrote "Bonds SEEMS to think..." - I'm not a mind reader.

Then stop trying to read Bonds' mind.

I'm not trying to read his mind. I'm reading his actions, and he's
acting like somebody who thinks he's better than everybody else.

That's still *your* twist on the issue. All you know for sure is that he's
acting like somebody who wanted out of MLBPA.

No, as far as I know he's still a member of the MLBPA. He's acting
like somebody who wanted out of a particular aspect of the MLBPA, the
licensing deal. When somebody comes up with a better explanation for
why he would do that, I'm all ears.

[Randall Turner]

"Seapig" wrote

<snip long ass dealie>

Do you feel the same way about Jordan and Aikman? Just curious whether you apply
this particular "strong indicator" criteria to everyone indiscriminately.

hint - this is a no-winner. If you do, you are an idiot, if you don't you're
acting in a prejudicial manner. Might want to find another criteria. :)

[Seapig]

Post by Randall Turner
<snip long ass dealie>
Do you feel the same way about Jordan and Aikman? Just curious whether you apply
this particular "strong indicator" criteria to everyone indiscriminately.
hint - this is a no-winner. If you do, you are an idiot, if you don't you're
acting in a prejudicial manner. Might want to find another criteria. :)

Thanks for the hint, but I'm going to go ahead and apply it to the
guys you mentioned:

Is Michael Jordan the only MLBPA member to reject its licensing
agreement? No. Or, maybe you were talking about Brian Jordan.
That's more reasonable, because he actually is a member of the MLBPA,
but the answer is the same, no. There aren't any baseball players
named Aikman, so you must be talking about Troy. Nope, he's not the
only MLBPA member to reject its licensing agreement either.

[Randall Turner]

Now you're just being silly. Your stance that there's something uniquely special
about the MLBPA licensing agreement (or not signing same) as a barometer of
character is unsupportable. Once again, horns of a dilemma - either you really
think so, and you're being a dumbass, or you don't and you're being a weasel.
(hence avoiding jet intakes, admittedly.) I smell weasel.

I enjoy playing with weasels.

Regardless, I believe there are other baseball players who have opted out of the
licensing agreement in years past, but I don't remember names. It wasn't a big
deal. (And my experience is from a game I was working on some seven years ago or
so.) I could make a phone call. Do you care? I'm getting old, I might be
mistaken.

[FunKiNjEfF]

Damnit, can we just agree that maybe we shouldn't judge someone who we've never
met, but have the right to do so? Especially a baseball player on a baseball
message board, for shit's sake? This thread is out of control.

[badlands420]

Post by FunKiNjEfF
Damnit, can we just agree that maybe we shouldn't judge someone who we've never
met, but have the right to do so? Especially a baseball player on a baseball
message board, for shit's sake? This thread is out of control.

I think Hitler would agree.

[Randall Turner]

Post by FunKiNjEfF
Damnit, can we just agree that maybe we shouldn't judge someone who we've never
met, but have the right to do so? Especially a baseball player on a baseball
message board, for shit's sake? This thread is out of control.

I'm not arguing that. I'm on the licensing issue only. And, this is how we learn
stuff. Don't worry, the guy is doing a good job defending his position. (Making
me think. That's a good sign.)

[Seapig]

Post by Randall Turner
Now you're just being silly. Your stance that there's something uniquely special
about the MLBPA licensing agreement (or not signing same) as a barometer of
character is unsupportable. Once again, horns of a dilemma - either you really
think so, and you're being a dumbass, or you don't and you're being a weasel.
(hence avoiding jet intakes, admittedly.) I smell weasel.

Who's the weasel? You asked about my "particular 'strong indicator'
criteria", and that's what I applied. Which part of "only member of
the MLBPA to reject the licensing agreement" do you not understand? A
better question would be which part do you understand? You seem to be
having trouble with "only," "MLBPA" and possibly "reject."

Only: Bonds is doing something that nobody else has done. That
indicates that he's thinks he's different than everybody else.
Neither Jordan nor Aikman is the only one to reject his union's
licensing deal.

MLBPA: If you think the basketball and football unions are the same
as the MLBPA, well, how far are the Padres below the salary cap? The
basketball and football unions consistently roll over in negotations;
I wouldn't expect their players to feel the same sense of loyalty as
is found in baseball. It wouldn't surprise me if the MLBPA
superiority extended to negotiating licensing deals - the fact that
nobody before Bonds opted out indicates that they've got a sweet deal.
Either that, or Bonds is the only one who hasn't understood the
degree of gratitude owed to the MLBPA by its members.

Reject: The last time I bought a pro basketball video game, Jordan
was in it. The last time I bought a pro football video game, Aikman
was in it. Things may have changed since then, but that probably has
something to with them both retiring. I know there was a time when
Jordan wasn't in the games, but I don't remember that ever being the
case with Aikman. Whatever differences they may have had in the past,
they got worked out.

Post by Randall Turner
I enjoy playing with weasels.

We all enjoy playing with ourselves from time to time, but this isn't
the place to talk about that sort of thing.

Post by Randall Turner
Regardless, I believe there are other baseball players who have opted out of the
licensing agreement in years past, but I don't remember names. It wasn't a big
deal. (And my experience is from a game I was working on some seven years ago or
so.) I could make a phone call. Do you care? I'm getting old, I might be
mistaken.

The players who were replacement players in 1995 aren't in the games,
but that's a case of the union telling them to fuck off, not the other
way around. I believe Bonds is the first player in the thirty-year
history of the licensing agreement to reject it. I got that
information from the evil, conspiratorial, Bonds-hating media, so it
could be wrong. You can make the phone call if you want to.

[XYZ]

Post by Seapig
You spend a lot of time patting yourself on the back for not basing
your opinion of Bonds on anything other than firsthand experience.
Maybe you should try extending that courtesy to the members of this
group. Where do you get the idea that we're a bunch of dupes for the
media? Have you personally witnessed us all reading the paper, while
nodding in agreement and taking notes?

No, but it's *very simple* logic:

Here are the clauses:

A: You have not met Barry Bonds personally
B: You think Barry Bonds is an asshole
C: You are a "dupe for the media"

...and here is the logical deduction:

If "A" and "B", then "C".

Simple enough?

[badlands420]

Post by XYZ
A: You have not met Barry Bonds personally
B: You think Barry Bonds is an asshole
C: You are a "dupe for the media"

Okay, let's test your logical deduction....

A: You have never been personally murdered by OJ Simpson
B: You think OJ Simpson is a murderer
C: You are a "dupe for the media"

A: You have never been personally sodomized by Richard Simmons
B: You think Richard Simmons might be gay
C: You are a "dupe for the media"

A: Ruben Rivera has never personally stolen your bat
B: You think Ruben Rivera is a thief
C: You are a "dupe for the media"

A: You've never personally split a box of Krispy Kremes with Joey Hamilton
B: You think Joey Hamilton is fat
C: You are a "dupe for the media"

A: You've never gotten high with Bob Marley
B: You think Bob Marley was a stoner
C: You are a "dupe for the media"

Hey, this logic thing is really fun! I may never have to think again!

[Seapig]

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig
You spend a lot of time patting yourself on the back for not basing
your opinion of Bonds on anything other than firsthand experience.
Maybe you should try extending that courtesy to the members of this
group. Where do you get the idea that we're a bunch of dupes for the
media? Have you personally witnessed us all reading the paper, while
nodding in agreement and taking notes?

A: You have not met Barry Bonds personally
B: You think Barry Bonds is an asshole
C: You are a "dupe for the media"
If "A" and "B", then "C".
Simple enough?

Yes, you are. I could attack the logic, but Badlands has already done
a nice job of that. Besides, it doesn't apply to me, because it
breaks down at "B."

[viper]

Post by Seapig

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig
Every other member of the MLBPA was okay with being in the game.
Bonds seems to think that just because he's better than everybody
else... <snip>

Pure, absolute, unfounded, subjective supposition on your part (what a
surprise!). Either provide a link stating this was the reason Bonds left the
MLBPA, or STFU about it.

Provide a link to what? You can't possibly want a link to a media
source, because we all know how you feel about it when we just parrot
what the media feeds us.
There's no link. It's called an opinion. Of course it's supposition,
that's why I wrote "Bonds SEEMS to think..." - I'm not a mind reader.
As for whether it's unfounded, feel free to present a more feasible
explanation for why Bonds would reject the MLBPA licensing deal. I'll
reserve the right to laugh at you if you attribute it to anything
other than greed and arrogance.

Why should MLB make money off of Bonds' Likeness and not Bonds.

Post by Seapig

Post by XYZ
It's not like its totally unprecidented. Athletes
have been doing it in other sports for years.

No. Really? You mean there are greedy, selfish bastards in other
sports? Hard to believe. Provide a link.

[Seapig]

Post by viper

Post by Seapig

Post by XYZ

Post by Seapig
Every other member of the MLBPA was okay with being in the game.
Bonds seems to think that just because he's better than everybody
else... <snip>

Pure, absolute, unfounded, subjective supposition on your part (what a
surprise!). Either provide a link stating this was the reason Bonds left the
MLBPA, or STFU about it.

Provide a link to what? You can't possibly want a link to a media
source, because we all know how you feel about it when we just parrot
what the media feeds us.
There's no link. It's called an opinion. Of course it's supposition,
that's why I wrote "Bonds SEEMS to think..." - I'm not a mind reader.
As for whether it's unfounded, feel free to present a more feasible
explanation for why Bonds would reject the MLBPA licensing deal. I'll
reserve the right to laugh at you if you attribute it to anything
other than greed and arrogance.

Why should MLB make money off of Bonds' Likeness and not Bonds.

For starters, MLB isn't part of the equation here. This is between
Bonds and the MLBPA - the union whose efforts made it possible for
Bonds to get out of Pittsburgh, and to make millions upon millions of
dollars. Now that he has his millions, he doesn't need the union.

And, he would make money off his likeness if he was part of the
licensing deal. I don't know how much money, but the thousand or so
other members of the MLBPA are content with it.